Here is another “Plymouth” tambour mantel clock by Seth Thomas (see this post for two others). This one does not have a date code, I estimate that it is from the early 1930s. It has a no. 89I movement that strikes the hours and half-hours on a coil gong. The movement has a code of R-6 on the back.
The case is 19 3/4 inches wide and 9 1/4 inches tall. The dial has a 4.5 inch time track, and is aluminum with embossed and painted numerals.
The movement has the original mainsprings that still open up very far and provide plenty of power. They are 3/4 inch wide loop end springs. The thicknesses are:
Time mainspring: 0.017 inch
Strike mainspring: 0.0167 inch
Aluminum dial with embossed numerals
The case is 19 3/4 inches wide and 9 1/4 inches tall
Instruction label inside the back door
Seth Thomas movement no. 89I. Has code R-6
Job 5146. I had last repaired this clock over 10 years ago, and it just needed to be disassembled and cleaned to make it run well again.
These two “Plymouth” tambour mantel clocks made by Seth Thomas came into my shop just a couple of days apart. They are similar but have different movements. Both have lively hour and half hour strike on two chime rods.
Plymouth was a name that Seth Thomas put on some clocks ca. 1930 – 1950. If anyone has details of this, please let me know.
Our first example is labeled 89IM on the movement. This is a variation on the popular No. 89 movement having hour and half-hour strike, with two hammers that simultaneously strike on two chime rods. The date code is 37-11 which represents November, 1937. The label on the back door has the date 5/21/38 (May 21, 1938) hand written on it. This is probably the date the clock was sold.
Our second example has the later Seth Thomas time and strike movement that was introduced to save on cost. It is labeled 10-40 and 4503, which could be date codes for October 1940 or March, 1945. If anyone can help me interpret these numbers, please let me know! Similar movements have been seen with model number A-200 on them. The label says:
Guarantee and Directions
Covering Clocks Equipped With
4300, 4500 and 4600 Series 8-Day Pendulum
Strike Movements in Tambour Cases
Both cases are 20 inches wide and 9 1/4 inches tall, with bezels measuring approximately 6 1/4 inches outside diameter. Both have “fake inlay” printed on the case front. Both have aluminum dials. The older dial has embossed numerals, but the numerals on the newer dial are printed only. Both clocks have instruction labels inside the back doors and are illustrated below.
Movement Summary
The No. 89 movement was introduced about 1900, and was made in many variations.
It was replaced in the late 1930s or the early 1940s with the second movement shown above. This has smaller plates and gears and was probably a cost reduction. It is not as good, as it seems to need quite strong mainsprings to run well.
In 1955, a flood badly damaged the Seth Thomas factory. They phased out movement manufacturing and began importing many movements from Germany. They used many Hermle movements.
The Seth Thomas “Helmsman” ship’s bell strike clock has been popular for many years. It was introduced in the late 1950s or early 1960s, and made into the 1980s or longer.
Seth Thomas "Helmsman" ship's bell clock
The Helmsman uses a movement made by Hermle in Germany. The movements made in the 1960s have the patent number 2,974,473 stamped on the back plate. The patent describes a system for doing the ship’s bell strike. See this web page for strike examples. Ship’s bell striking operates on a four hour cycle with pairs of bell strikes on each hour, and pairs of strikes plus a single strike on the half hour:
12:00 XX XX XX XX
12:30 X
1:00 XX
1:30 XX X
2:00 XX XX
2:30 XX XX X
3:00 XX XX XX
3:30 XX XX XX X
4:00 XX XX XX XX
and so on, repeating every 4 hours.
The inventor of the patent is Richard Kramer, and the patent was assigned to General Time Corporation (parent company of Seth Thomas at that time).
The fact that General Time, and not Hermle, received the patent, leads me to believe that this movement was specially made for Seth Thomas. Later, of course, other companies used this movement in their clocks (including the Chelsea “shipstrike” clocks).
One interesting feature of Kramer’s design is that a “dummy” strike without the bell is performed at 15 minutes before the hour. This prepares the strike for the next hour, when 1, 2, 3, or 4 pairs of strikes are sounded. In later years, the design was changed, and the “dummy” strike cycle was eliminated.
The owner of an old clock often asks, “How old is it?” Some clockmaking companies helped us answer this question by putting date codes on their products. (Actually, date coding was done for business reasons, including facilitating the ordering of spare parts.) Seth Thomas is one company that put date codes on many of their clocks.
Some Seth Thomas electric clocks from the late 1940s and early 1950s have a date code stamped into the rear of the case, below the power cord opening. The code is 4 digits, and I believe that the first two digits represent the year, and the last two digits give the month.
Shown below are two examples of the “Baxter” wooden case time only clock. This clock is 8 7/16 inches wide and 4 1/2 inches tall, with a convex glass over the two-tone silver color dial.
The first example illustrated below has the following date codes:
Movement: 4712 (December 1947)
Motor: 43 1 47 (may be January 1947)
Outside case, beneath power cord on metal cover: 4712 (December 1947)
The second example has the following date codes:
Movement: 3 48 (March 1948)
Motor: 5001 (January 1950)
Outside case, beneath power cord on wood: 5002 (February 1950)
Seth Thomas Baxter – 2E
Baxter – 2E, E009-007
Date code 4712 on the metal rear cover beneath the power cord.
Motor and movement, date codes 4712 and 43 7 47
Seth Thomas Baxter – 4E
Baxter – 4E E009-013
Date code 5002 on the wood beneath the power cord.
I may not be interpreting the date code exactly right. One source said that the code gives year and quarter. This can’t always be right, as the examples above show a “12″, which cannot be a quarter! I recall seeing a “13″ for these digits once, so perhaps the second two digits represent a lunar month! Westclox used lunar months at one time for their bookkeeping, but I’m not sure about Seth Thomas.
Historical Note
On the first example above the metal rear cover is recessed into the wood, whereas on the second it is not.
“Adamantine” was Seth Thomas’ trademarked name for a celluloid finish over wood. Besides the mahogany color shown here, it was made in black, white, green, brown, tan and other colors. These cases are durable, and can usually be polished to look very nice. Sometimes the colors fade with age. Adamantine clocks were made from about the 1880s to the 1920s.
This beautiful mahogany Adamantine clock came into my shop recently with a broken time mainspring. Nothing too exciting about that, but I think this clock is so nice looking that I decided to show it here. I had previously repaired it 11 years ago, overhauling the movement and polishing the case and bezel.
I replaced the broken time mainspring with a Merritt’s P-1956 3/4 by .0165 by 96 inches (the original spring was 0.0172 inch thick). The pendulum takes a superb motion (almost too good) and so an even thinner mainspring would work. During my previous overhaul, I replaced the way too strong strike mainspring (an incorrect replacement) with a spring about 0.016 inch thick.
This nice little wooden case clock is 9-1/2 inches tall and 7-1/2 inches wide with a 3-15/16 inch time track on the dial. It was made about 1930, and has a manual-starting electric motor. The starting lever is on the back of the movement (inside the back door) and is depressed and released to start the motor.
My customer had e-mailed me and said that the starting lever had fallen off, and asked if I could put it back on. She had taken it to several clock repair shops, and they all wanted to take out the original movement and put in a new battery movement. This has been her favorite clock for many years, and she wanted it kept like original.
I agreed to have her send it to me. I unpacked it, and found the lever and mounting screw taped inside the clock. I secured the lever with the screw, plugged in the cord, started the motor, and it ran fine! I can’t understand why a clock shop would not have simply put the lever back on instead of recommending a new movement!
Seth Thomas manual start electric clock, ca. 1930
This clock uses a manual start Sangamo motor. The starting lever is below the set knob at the top.
I blogged about this clock shortly after receiving it in April. At that time, it had an incorrect picture in the door. Lee Davis painted a reproduction on old glass for me. I am extremely pleased with this clock. The case veneer needs some repair, but I can enjoy it as it is for now.
Early Seth Thomas 30 hour OG, ca. 1845. 26 inches tall, 15 11/16 inches wide
Replacement tablet, a reproduction of an original. Painted on old glass by Lee Davis.
Label, gong and hammer. Early style, crescent shaped hammer.
Front of movement, type 1.241, early.
The brass nameplate on on the dial. S. THOMAS PLYMOUTH CONN U S A
Dial: metal, two rings drawn around time track, dots for minute marks. Early features of dial: tapered numerals 3, 4 and 8, small winding holes (8.2 mm). Has an engraved brass nameplate, an unusual feature.
This 30 hour OG is the most recent addition to my collection (I don’t buy very many clocks these days, but I couldn’t resist this one). This clock was made about 1845, the fourth year that Seth Thomas made brass movement OG clocks. It has the early features described on my ClockHistory.com web site, and the unusual feature of a brass nameplate on the dial.
Here is a slideshow of photos:
Ogee case, non-original lower glass, made in Plymouth Hollow, glasses held with wood strips. Height 26″, width 15 11/16″, depth 4 5/16″;
Dial: metal, two rings drawn around time track, dots for minute marks;
Early features of dial: tapered numerals 3, 4 and 8, small winding holes (8.2 mm);
Unusual feature of dial: brass nameplate with S. THOMAS PLYMOUTH CONN U S A;
Label: printed by Elihu Geer, Hartford, Connecticut, no address given. This dates it to 1842 – 1845;
